Update: Basket Order Enhancements

[Naman]

Hi All,

On Dhan, we continue to build and make our investing & trading experience better everyday. We actively listen to feedback from our users and ensure we act on it to make Dhan work for you.

With Basket Orders, you can execute multiple orders together. Traders on Dhan are loving the basket orders experience, we extended this to TradingView and to Options Trader app as well (signup for early access, if not).

We have further enhanced the basket orders experience, specially around margins and are set to go live with the following enhancements soon on Dhan Web, App and TradingView.

1. Margin Requirements:
Option Traders use basket order to get margin benefits from hedging legs. We are now showing required margin and hedge benefit upfront:

Overall Margin: It is simply a sum of margin required for each leg to execute in the particular sequence. This is the minimum amount you need to have in your account to successfully execute all orders of the basket.

Final Margin: It is the final margin blocked after all the order in the basket is executed.

Hedge Benefit: This is the difference b/w Overall Margin & Final Margin.

We were earlier showing Overall Funds, which led multiple times to confusion with Final Margin. We have now updated this to make it more simpler and easier to understand.

2. Rearrangement of Orders in Basket

You can now change the sequence of order in a basket and see the changes in real time margin requirement. This ensures you now see the margin utilisation based on your approach to execution of orders… Buy / Sell and CALL / PUT first or after.

3. Sequencing of Order Execution

Earlier, when you placed orders via Basket, all of them used to get executed together, which resulted in higher funds required - since we had no control on which order the exchange would execute first.

Now, we have moved to Sequence based order execution, which means orders in a basket now get executed in a particular sequence one after the other. This ensures hedge gets formed in exchange positions, as result margins are reduced and also you get the expected experience when it comes to order execution.

We hope with this, you will love the Baskets experience on Dhan even more. These updates are already live in Options Trader app for those who have access.

Enjoy your investing experience on Dhan Thank you.

Naman

[nnJhavarePatil]

नवे अपडेट्स कधीपासून लाईव्ह होणारेत?
धनवर मी आजच हेजचा पहिला ट्रेड घेतला ट्रायलसाठी.
व्यवस्थित execute आणि exit झाल्या.

हेजिंगच्या बेनिफिटसाठी ऑर्डर टाकताना आणि BUY चा लेग आणि नंतर SELL चा लेग हा क्रम गरजेचा आहे, आणि पोशिझन काढताना आधी SELL चा लेग आणि नंतर BUY चा लेग हा क्रम गरजेचा असतो.
हा क्रम जर तुमच्याकडूनच (by default) मेंटेन झाला तर उत्तमच म्हणजे नव्या ट्रेडर लोकांना चुकीच्या क्रमामुळे त्रास / तोटा होणार नाही.

[nimankumar]

Hi @Naman , margin benefits is different in other broker. In zerodha the total margin required is very less but in dhan the total margin required is much more… although after hedging the difference is not much but still a difference. Is it in brokers hand as it is different from broker to broker.

[PravinJ]

Hi @nimankumar

The broking platform you have mentioned here shows less when compared to Dhan, because they may be reducing the premium to be received from the margin shown and as a result show a lower amount up-front. In such cases, the premium to be received is realised on T+1 day and is credited in the ledger only, but not reduced from margin. So the next day, the margin used will be the same as previous day. We are not sure why this is done.

Exchange required margin is Span + Exposure, this is exactly matching with the ones that we are displaying on Dhan. And we continue to show the actual margin required as per exchange specification.

[nimankumar]

Ok they deducted premium received amount and shown us the reduced cost. But actual margin required to place the order is the amount shown in dhan app. In Dhan also we received same premium after T+1 day. Is my understanding right ?

[Varsha777]

i read many threads on this (overall Margin is more in Dhan) , does this problem still exist ??

yeah i read every single reply of @PravinJ @Naman and i got your points that u show correct margin as per the rule & all that…

BUT
guys plz understand , Can’t you guys bring one solution like Zerodha has adopted ?? like for intraday orders = calculate overall Margin(By reducing Option premium received) from Overall Margin as those are Intraday orders & if any one want to convert the position to normal order then current structure will work.

"Obviously me & many other fellow traders naturally concern about Overall Margin Only & compare them with other platforms, we don’t give much care to Final Margin compare to overall Margin coz overall margin is the minimum amount to execute any orders!
without execution , whats the benefit of having same Final Margin compare to other plaforms. if overall Margin is different , we all get affected at some time plz work on the solution i mentioned above.

[PravinJ]

Hi Varsha, We have discussed on showing margins the other way, our teams are not comfortable with same. We go by how exchange has defined it, and we feel this is the right way to show margins. Everything we do at Dhan is built from scratch, while we track everyone but we follow no one.

There have been instances where we received suggestions on margins, and many of them were incorporate as you can see in the thread above. Margins is a touchy topic, and you will see we have responded to every post here - just to maintain complete transparency with our users.

The same underlying logic of margin is also going in our Options Trader app, Baskets, Pre-built strategies, and also future products that are coming from Dhan, we have announced Strategy Builder, but there are some more coming up.

[Varsha777]

at least, For intraday orders can’t be shown in this manner ?? New overall Margin = (overall Margin - Option premium received) ??? for Normal orders i understood the Problem !

[Prashantkodag]

I have 42k fund in my account . I deployed calendar spread . It was showing overall margin 37k and final margin 27k in basket. But after deploying they blocked 37k. I can see only 10k in margin available section. And if I go for stocks or any future trading there it shows only 5k fund available. May I know how much fund should we maintain in account. According to overall margin or final margin? And where can we use that hedge benefited margin?

[Sameet]

Hi @Prashantkodag Welcome to Dhan Community.

Overall margin is the minimum amount you need to have in your account to successfully execute all orders of the basket and the final margin will be blocked after all the orders in the basket are executed. Also, the short sell premium amount received can be used only to buy options on the same day.

We have your registered details and will connect you shortly to discuss your specific scenario.

[Anandita]

WHY REJECTED ??

[Diamond]

@Anandita

WHY REJECTED ??

Reverse and try, Place BUY before SELL. Also, Overall Margin mentioned must be there.

[Rajuvala]

@Naman no broker in india is asking for 2.55 lakh for 1 lot of bank nifty weekly straddle sell. will stop trading on dhan. will switch back to finvasia zero brokerage n far better than dhan. this was you are not going to get huge volume traders. you can email me on rajuvala@gmail.com

[PravinJ]

Hi @Rajuvala, you posted this multiple times and also on Twitter, we have this request - hence other posts are deleted.

This is only scenario that we are waiting to optimise, when selling two legs it margin required needs to be optimised on our RMS. We are already doing this, hoping to ship it to live this month itself.

[Rajuvala]

Recently i have opened 3 accounts of my family members with Dhan, Let me know once it is optimised as i see ppl complaining since august 2022 yet nothing happend. as of now I am stopping trading with Dhan untill this is resolved. I am paying 15 Lakh brokerage to Zerodha annuallly. Inform me once it is done then I will review my decision and may start trading with Dhan from new FY.

[Rajuvala]

@PravinJ Replied as above check

[PravinJ]

Hi @Rajuvala, we rarely delete posts on Dhan community unlike other forums which are heavily moderated to look good. Earlier we have had feedback on margins which over the period of time they are resolved, but we keep older posts.

[pratik01]

Hi @Naman thanks for sharing.

Looking forward to integration of iceberg with basket orders.

[Rajuvala]

it is not about looking good or bad. ppl have raised the margin issue in august 22 the same I am facing today also i.e 1 lot BN straddle sell should not require more than 1.70 lakh margin and Dhan need Rs.2.55 lakh. So it is not resolved over period of time. The client will point out the problem and you should thank them as any company will earn money by solving problem only. Else ppl can move out silently. Other features are good but the margin is the part of base product for any brokerage firm. You can email me personally too on rajuvala@gmail.com.

[Nadeem]

Hi @Naman,

Found one basic mistake on basket order, Let see to place a Option Spread with margin benefit we all know that first leg would be Buy order and second leg would be Sell order so to keeping the same in my mind I am adding orders in same sequence in the basket but it is taking/adding in reverse. Then before placing it I need to re-order it which cost me sometime to get the real basket order benefits.

Suppose placing a iron condor so first 2 buy then 2 sell orders included and placed but here not possible without re-ordering to get margin benefit.

Basically first order it is adding at bottom and subsequent one on top of it which is wrong ideally it should be vice versa(same I observed in watchlist if you add 5 scrips together 1st will be on bottom and 5th will be on top, here it is manageable but not in basket order) so user do not worry about re-ordering and place the order asap.

Please look into it.

Thanks,
Nadeem