Who is actually taking this money off the table when losses for 9 out of 10 individual traders average 50k INR per trading account per year?

Someone from inside the broking industry, please be kind to provide a reasonable estimate of the portion of this total retail losses that are profited by the FIIs, PROs, and other profitable retail participants.


  1. You can’t win every trade. When you lose you will have to give away some part of your capital to someone else (could be any one from retail, HNI, FII or DII).

  2. You can win some trades. When you lose someone else (could be any one from retail, HNI, FII or DII) will have to give part of their capital to you.

Apart from what you give or take to the counterparty there are also expenses - Broker, Exchange, SEBI, Govt charges which goes to each of these entities from you.

Hi! @pulsate_half441 - This is a very good question you asked.

Let me explain.

Always remember more than 85% percent volume is managed by the exchange (in this case say NSE or BSE). Rest are we humans (retailers, corporate, promoters, etc).

Now these 85% volume constitute NSE’s internal algorithm-based trading bots. These bots are very essential as they maintain the market integrity so as to prevent any single entity to move the entire market. You can say that these bots maintain discipline in the market.

Indirectly, you’re trading with these bots otherwise if only humans would trade then it’s impossible that your thousands of quantities order get executed in a few seconds only.

These exchange-based algorithmic bots have ability to quickly respond to buy or sell orders placed by we humans.

Now whenever we are at loss the amount either gets credited to bots (exchange account) or humans or both share the fraction of amount you lost. It fully depends on quantity and price and who has an upper hand.

I hope this is clear!

Are u referring to the collocated HFTs here ?

Hi @t7support

Yes, we can say that 85%+ volumes are managed by HFT computer-based programs. These HFTs are continuously buying & selling. We can see this continuous buying and selling in market depth. Market depth never stops even for single sec during market hours.

There might be stocks or indices where market depth stops and starts continuously. We call these stocks ill-liquid (or in technical terms NO bots have been deployed in these stocks yet).

I hope this is helpful!

But these are not owned or managed by the exchange. HFTs are put in place by HNI, DII, FIIs etc in the exchange premises. It wouldn’t be appropriate to tag the exchange as the counterparty to trades and a sizeable beneficiary to the losses of the retail.

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@t7support - Yeah, exchange is not a single entity. They’re umbrella of all of these registered promoters, operators, fii, dii, etc. My main focus in this answer is to highlight where does the loss actually goes or who is the beneficiary :slight_smile:

@t7support Just a heads-up please. I recalled this now. In Scam1992 movie there is a straightforward dialogue in Hindi that “You exchanges make money when people loose money”. If I remember this was said by Harshad Mehta to BSE owner (if I’m not wrong). If this was false statement then the script writer won’t risk to state this. It would be false allegations. Please checkout that movie. It’s eye-opener.

I have seen the web series. But see brokers, sebi, govt, exchange all who charge per trade make money even when trader is not profitable. But that doesn’t mean that they take all of the loss amount. That goes to the counterparties - HNI, FII, DII, other Retail.


Please do not spread false information if you don’t know about that thing.

NSE doesn’t have bots that do trading. Period.

Hi @encore - Bots are nothing but algorithms or computer programs. They’re not chitti like physical robots. Period🤣

Everybody knows what a bot is, and exchanges do not deploy bots to do trading. It’s the traders.

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Everyone knows that and I’m not saying the opposite :joy:. But don’t spread false info, if you don’t know something, accept that.

Hi @encore Sir - Whatever you say. You’re right🫡

@iamshrimohan any opinion or hunch about the matter.

Estimated ratio of the total losses incurred by the retail segment pocketed by the DII’s, FII’s and the other profitable retail traders.

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@pulsate_half441 surely. I missed to read this thread.

I haven’t had the chance to peruse the research paper issued by SEBI, but I certainly plan to do it soon (Do share the link incase you get). Nevertheless, I’d like to share my insights from Prop Trading on this matter. DIIs and FIIs usually exhibit a dual nature. Firstly, the funds they manage are subject to stringent regulations imposed by various regulatory authorities, leaving them with limited flexibility to even move a penny from here and there. Secondly, some of them operate a Prop Desk, where they engage in proprietary trading using their own capital. This typically involves hedging strategies with futures and options, allowing them to execute positions that retail participants often cannot due to their significant size.

For instance, an individual who has sold a put option typically opts to book loss if it goes in-the-money and refrains from taking physical delivery. However, Prop Traders may choose to take delivery and employ Covered Call strategies to exit their positions. They do so while incurring an interest rate cost of only 6.00% for the borrowed capital (The COC at this low rate is next to impossible for retail participant). To manage risk effectively, institutions often allocate their capital across multiple desks, thereby diversifying their exposure. So in general DIIs and FIIs are very disciplined as compared to retail participants and move over they get a market edge and hence have a greater probability to win.

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first of all FII, DII, & PROS are very disciplined they follow their rules strictly . if their employs don’t follow the rule book in that case they are fired .
some rules from their rule book

  1. never took position without calculated risk.
  2. never took position without insurance. ex. hedging
  3. never make high profits 4% monthly is enough for their big funds.
  4. never sell their stock holding if target is not achieve . instead buy puts or sell calls in weak market conditions.
  5. there plus point is bloomberg terminal that’s why they are 1 step forward to retail traders

retail traders don,t loose hope it is possible to make money from market volatility
you need a setup with 40% accuracy, a rule book for your trades execution . little math to save your capital, rock strong emotions with slightly risky behavior to take trades on time and with little patience to wait for profits
and most importantly hard core discipline with consistency .

humans are very bad traders . so they use algos. and it is more common in near future that in trading humans are completely replaced by algorithm…