Please Check what dhan says and what basket says
Don’t you get the difference between the fund required of basket and exchange required margin in that table?
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I am talking about fund requirements, see in your shared table exchange margin required column and dhan basket required fundS.
whatever you mentioned in that table was True except the “EXCHANGE REQUIRED MARGIN”.
==> In your table Exchange required margin: Rs.230000
In Dhan basket: Rs. 500000
when we place buy orders first the required margin & fund required become almost equal.
This is the problem with your basket orders, it shows the same for both types ([BUY, SELL], [SELL, BUY]).
if you want clarity on this I am available to you, and you can check this in span margin calculators also.
and you mentioned in the table that was True, but not in the Basket.
you can observe the difference between these two images. when we interchange the order arrangement the required margins come down. Not only this one platform but also other platforms too has the same rules and all traders know that.
Here is Dhan Basket
if observe these above images, there is no difference in fund required margins.
This is the actual problem. I have the margin required amount, but because of the fund requirement amount, I am unable to place the orders.
Still, If you don’t get this issue, and you think that your system is fine then there is no purpose to discuss and be here.
Hi @Jp007
Your initial question was about the margin requirement, you haven’t mentioned about this now - so I am assuming this is resolved and its clear how Dhan is showing margins that are actually required by the exchanges and shown upfront.
On newer queries and observations…
- For Market orders - all the Margin required are same as that of anyone else. Hope this is also fine.
- On Final Margin required - I checked this with other platform v/s ours. For Limit Orders - Dhan, shows the actual margin required based on the Limit price, while other platform shows it based on market price or LTP. You can try placing the order, it will get rejected there and or exchange will reject it. This is only in case when LTP < Limit price.
- New query you posted now, about sequence of orders and change in Final Margin Required and Funds Required… let me explain these…
Will there be change in Funds Required? - No, this is absolutely correct and it is sum of margin required in individual legs.
Will there be a change in Margin Required? - Yes, we make changes for this in our systems to reflect that.
Our current baskets product is built in a way that - both orders can will be sent simultaneously to the exchange… depending in liquidity and order type, one of the orders may get executed before the other, but funds requirement of both will be the same. Note: You do have option to send individual order to exchange and execute them on Dhan.
Hope this clarifies, and thank you for highlighting. We will make the required change to reflect the change in margin requirement when sequence of order changes.
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Thank you. I hope you will resolve the issue what you found in my query as soon as possible.
You have not resolved his concern on funds required. It is way too much like 4x compared to others. I have same concern. You guys don’t want to fix this look like and taking the issue in circles.
Hi @vivekbagade
Seems you are comparing funds required (on Dhan) w/t Margin Required (on other Broker). What needs to be compared is Final Margin Required (on Dhan) w/t Final Margin (on other Broker).
We have stated above as well, Dhan shows absolutely correct information, while other platform order will reduce option premium to be received. This is incorrect way of presenting margin according to us. Dhan shows margin required as required by the exchange.
On other hand, the only open item on this thread is that margin required needs to be updated base don which order leg is executed first (we are working on this). Also as indicated, Dhan baskets are designed to execute both legs at same time, or any leg at any time.
Hope this clarifies. Thank you.
Again you are trying to misled. I am talking about all funds required, final margin required. You are asking to keep 1.69 lacs funds in account for bull put spread hedge. Other brokers like zerodha ask 47k in account for bull put spread hedge. Coming to final margin, that is also different, you have 42K and they have 28K. My problem is about funds required of 1.69 lacs compared to 47k. It is almost 4x different.
You guys are intentionally not answering the issue of funds required to open hedge. I am not much much bothered about final margin.
Hi @vivekbagade
We are absolutely right in the information we have provided on Dhan. Hedge is formed when both legs of the orders are executed and both positions are created on exchange. In case only one leg gets executed of your transaction, and hedge is not formed - the margin benefit is not availed. When both orders are sent to exchange for execution, there is scenario where one gets executed and other does not. On Dhan we show ‘funds required’ for this scenario, which covers for both.
For ‘Final Margin’, where you are comparing 42K on Dhan v/s 28K on other brokers, they are reducing the premium to be received and hence showing you a lesser final margin. It make you feel its less margin to place a transaction.
We show the actual margin required as per exchange specification and we wouldn’t be comfortable showing it any other way than what is prescribed by the exchanges.
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I was raised this question first. If many people noticed the same issue then where is the problem.?
I don’t know who is the beginner here .
I was quite disappointed with this platform ( slow orders, ema zigzags,et
c) and margins and also their replies…
And, they were talking about sending orders and what if 2nd order executed first without proper margins… so that’s how i realised that how this platform works and system works here.
If you see in mobile app, while executing the basket order, there is an option " execute with 1st order"
Then how will the second will execute first.
May be if any glitches happened, no one will responsible for your money…
We all informed same thing again and again, every time the reply was same.
So i concluded myself, it’s better to stick with top brokers and don’t need any arguments about their system and don’t waste your time and money by shifting one to another.
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hi @Jp007
We answer all the questions asked honestly and transparently here. Margin requirements are shared by the exchanges and are same for all, and are calculated and reported - its same rule for all stock brokers. All systems are audited and certified by exchanges.
Order execution does not depends on any broker, it depends on the exchange. When two orders are sent to exchange at same time, its execution at exchange depends on multiple factors like price, liquidity and multiple, I am sure you would know this.
On Dhan web also, you have option to select one order only and execute it individually. Users on our platform - execute both legs of the order together… many have more strategies in a basket - where they choose to execute first and wait for the next.
We clarified your query on Margin Calculation, I also replicated your order format with Limit order on another platform you mentioned, it got rejected. Acknowledged that sequence of orders, margin requirement should change as per your feedback and we are working on this.
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You guys are intentionally not addressing the issue. Keep your logic to yourself. We customers are very much knowledgeable.
Hi @vivekbagade & @Jp007
We will improve the communication here and make changes to ensure there is no confusion on ‘Funds required’ and margin required. Additionally benefit for options traders, will be highlighted separately.
Finally you understood the traders view, if you fix this issue i will definitely comback to you…
Thank you
I just did a ATM straddle for Bank Nifty at Dhan as well Zerodha. Same lot, same strike price, same expiry.
Margin used at Zerodha (after giving back instant credit of the premium that is received by selling options) stands at 282750
Margin used at Dhan (after giving back instant credit of the premium received by selling options) stands at 327443. While Dhan has given the premium back to the account but while showing Margin used, it continues to show the original margin required. Rest, it is not asking extra margin as interpreted by looking at the margin used on the screen.
Nothing to be checked. I just shared the understanding which traders at Dhan are missing.
Let me rephrase.
Dhan is asking Margin in line with other brokers. Dhan is also providing instant credit of the premium received on options sold like other Brokers. The only difference is that Dhan is displaying the original margin used whereas other brokers are displaying net of premium received under Margin used.
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Thanks @nity, we will make the communication clear and simpler in coming release (one after next). Your feedback has been very helpful always.
At last you have put an end to the query,.
Thank you to all the users who faced the margin issue and raised query here, initially they thought i was wrong and their system and rules were correct, now I thought they would realize the main issue of their system.
I posted this question when I created my Dhan account the first week of Feb, they said the same thing, again I posted this query the first week of march they said the same thing.
Now its April 1st week, still
As of now, there is no updates regarding this issue. People posting the same query again and again in these days, but still no updates.
its been 2 months not a single day or week ro month. let’s decide yourself what to do.